I was reading my NRA magazine and found an article about Obama's Ten Point Plan to 'change' the 2nd amendment. My point for posting this is not to spread the message, because I won't be a tool for the NRA. I can be my own tool, thank you very much.
My question here is for those that I know to be more knowledgeable in politics than I. Is this stuff NRA propaganda or what? Top ten:
1. ban the use of firearms for home self-defense
2. pass federal laws eliminating your right to carry
3. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns
4. close down 90% of the guns shops in America
5. ban rifle ammo commonly used for hunting the sport shooting
6. increase federal taxes on guns and ammo by 500%
7. restore voting rights for 5 million criminals including those who have been convicted of using a gun to commit a violent crime
8. expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms
9. mandate a govt-issued license to purchase a firearm
10. appoint judges to the U.S. Supreme Court and Federal Judiciary who share his views on the 2nd Amendment
Now, there are others reporting on this. Ben Smith has an article on it. I had to Google it to find it on the NRA website because they didn't exactly make it easy to find.
So, what gives? Obama has really made the claims listed in the top ten list or the NRA is loosely interpreting his actions and his position? I do know that the guy isn't pro-2nd Amendment, neither was Hillary. But I wouldn't vote for some dipshit simply because he promises to leave my firearm collection alone. I could call the NRA and ask them to explain this more to me but I can't stand sitting on hold for 20 minutes listening to their automated system ask me to donate more money for the next major crisis. I support the basic tenets of the NRA, but they're a political machine that employs propaganda like every other group so I don't trust them 100%. I wouldn't trust them to hold my shotgun while I tied my bootlace, so to speak. I'd no doubt get my gun back but my wallet would curiously come up missing from my back pocket.
There's my rant for Sunday.
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14 comments:
For the most part, I like the NRA. I think they do a decent job of promoting safety and gun rights, though they seem to generate ire from anti-gun and pro-gun people. The anti's spread BS, like, "the NRA wants to give toddlers belt-fed weapons." OTOH, pro-gun people say that the NRA compromises too much and hasn't done enough to protect gun rights.
I read the article and I am leaning towards half-truths. At no point does the author explain where any of the plan comes from. The NRA, like many groups, tries to use fear as a fundraising tactic (my wife gets similar doom and gloom stuff from her union). This article sounds like that. I have never heard that Obama plans on doing any of these things. I can trace most of them to various pieces of legislation that have come out in the last 5 or 6 years that have been proposed by Democrats, but not Obama. FWIW, the 8th item on the list is the new AWB, which was most recently proposed by 3 Republicans.
I think the NRA is making a leap of faith. They are suggesting that if a Democrat controls the White House that this legislation will be easier to pass, but that is not necessarily true. Obama has been fairly low-key on the 2nd Amendment. Whether this is because he doesn't want to make it an issue or that he isn't interested in anti-gun legislation, I don't know. I am hoping it is the latter.
Both candidates have lousy records when it comes to gun rights. To be fair, Obama is from a very anti-gun state, so I can see where his stance is coming from. Obama needs independent voters and some conservatives to win this election. He seems interested in reaching out to a variety of people. I don't think that gun control is major issue among most Democrats and I don't think it is in their best interests to push it over the next 4 years.
Just look at our own state, MI. Jenny was very much into the anti-gun movement. She opposed concealed carry, even joining the ridiculously named opposition group, People Who Care About Kids. Since becoming governor, she has publicly said she was wrong about her opposition and has signed every piece of pro-gun legislation that has crossed her desk.
1. pure bullshit
2. pure bullshit
3. more absolute bullshit
4. impossible, and bullshit
5. more bullshit
6. yup...more bullshit
7. propaganda. There are moves to restore voting rights to CERTAIN felons. This is racist bullshit made to make whitey be afreaid that those violent black people will be voting again and carrying weapons to kill you and rape your pretty blond wives.
8. bullshit
9. this bill is introduced all the time
10. Yeah, he will get to appoint judges, and many of them may have intrepretations of the 2nd amendment, but to think that he will apoint judges based SOLELY on their shared beliefs in the 2nd amendment is pure propaganda bullshittery
Fuck the NRA entirely. I dropped my membership after what they did to Stupak and his family and haven't looked back. And somehow, strangely, despite voting Democratic, nobody has tried to take my guns away. This is all election-year scare tactics meant to encite single-issue voters. "I don't care what they do to my taxes or roads, just don't take my guns."
And steve hits the right quesiton: where did they discern this information? Has Obama said or done any of these? No. They are taking a Dem stereotype and making them into talking points for paranoid anti-government types.
my wife gets similar doom and gloom stuff from her union
So does Mrs. Smitty's cousin, an IBEW guy. McCain will eliminate unions. McCain will take 100% of your pension and spend it on useless wars in Russia and Iran. That kind of fuckwittery.
I thought I would dig a little deeper to get a better picture on what those points mean.
1. I am not really sure. This could be in regards to several things. Obama has supported hangun bans and a ban on all semi-auto guns. There was also a bill in Illinois that would protect people in cases of legeitmate self-defense from being charged with some kind of weapons violation (there are some Ill municipalities that have banned firearms). Obama voted no on this.
2. I am not aware of any specific federal legislation, but Obama has been on the record opposing concealed carry for non-police.
3. Obama has said in the past that he supports a ban on the possession of handguns, though he hasn't made any in the last 8 years or so.
4. No clue. Clinton pushed the BATFE to change the licensing requirements and the number of FFL's dropped by around 75%. I am not aware of any plan that Obama has in this area.
5. Kennedy, Schumer, et al had a bill 6 or 7 years ago that would have achieved this. I am not aware of Obama's opinion on it.
6. Another bill that never made it out of committee. I am not aware of Obama's opinion on it.
7. I agree with Smitty's assessment.
8. He has supported this in the past.
9. He has supported this in the past.
10. I agree with Smitty's assessment.
This is all election-year scare tactics meant to encite single-issue voters. "I don't care what they do to my taxes or roads, just don't take my guns."
Sure, but this is a single issue group. I wouldn't expect otherwise.
And somehow, strangely, despite voting Democratic, nobody has tried to take my guns away.
I will respectfully disagree here. It reminds me of discussions I have had on the Patriot Act and the deprivation of Habeas review for Gitmo detainees. I am frequently asked if I have had any of my personal rights infringed upon. I am also told that I shouldn't be worried about wiretapping if I am not doing anything wrong. My response to all of these situations, including the gun issue, is that we should all be worried about any deprivation of a right even if it doesn't touch us at all.
IMO, if you look at the last 100 years, we certainly have less gun rights. If you look at the last 20 years, I would say there has been about even. Some have been lost, but many states have moved to allow concealed carry. There have been improvements in other areas.
The NRA is certainly not perfect, but they are the 800 pound gorilla. There are some other groups, such as the GOA and the JPFO, but neither of those groups have the clout the NRA has. The SAF is decent, but they focus more on litigation than on lobbying. The NRA can't claim all the credit, but I wonder where things would be if they weren't around.
It is unfair to label all Democrats as anti-gun. John Dingell served on the NRA board. John Murtha has been consistently pro-gun. Unfortunately, more Democrats tend to vote yes on gun restrictions than Republicans.
Unfortunately, more Democrats tend to vote yes on gun restrictions than Republicans.
This is the root of my rant. Their mailing takes advantage of votes cast in the State Senate and a few votes cast in the fed Senate on bills commonly voted for or against by Democrats.
Why I said "bullshit" to most of those items of the list is because while Obama may have supported such legislation in the past, it does not in any way reflect on some sort of "Christmas Wish List" of things Obama will do as Prez. In fact, as Prez, he'll have bigger issues to focus on.
The only "danger" is that if...IF...and that's a HUGE if...any of this kind of legislation makes it to Obama's Presidential desk, he'll probably sign it.
Obama may have supported such legislation in the past, it does not in any way reflect on some sort of "Christmas Wish List" of things Obama will do as Prez.
I agree. I think he can get a lot of support from gun owners if he decided to focus on the economy and foreign policy, rather than gun control.
It's been a busy week thus far so I haven't had a chance to post back to the comments.
First- I do appreciate the existence of the NRA. No doubt. Without them we'd have no 2nd amendment at all. But they have a practice of crying wolf all the time. When there's a victory, they don't celebrate it, they move right into 'well, that was nice but now we have to move onto the next major battle'. I guess the positive side is that they're always planning the next war.
I get so sick of the lies and trash of the anti's that someone needs to call them on it and they should be held responsible for lying. You shouldn't be able to spread a video of someone holding a fully auto (which is already illegal) and claiming that these guns are all over the streets and need to be banned. Of course that's going to scare the uninformed voter. Black rifles look scary because they're black. Let's paint them all pink and then the anti's might leave us alone.
So then, Smitty, what you're saying is that you don't need this wallet sized reminder card from the NRA?
Fuckwittery- great word.
The 2nd amendment is a constant fight because it seems like the anti's have nothing better to do with their time and then they have mouthpieces like Rosie 'crackmouth' O'Donnell that spew ignorance and stupidity and expect to get away with it.
The media covers the idiots but rarely make point of the Tom Selleck's out there that point out how stupid the attackers are.
And no, no one has ever tried to take my guns away but they did it in New Orleans to other people and that means they'll do it again to others. You protect the right, not the individual.
Let's paint them all pink
That's what the Army already uses.
I thought that the Army stopped painting their weapons pink because their pistol grip tassles stuck to the paint.
The gun issue has not come up a lot so I trust Smitty's point by point analysis.
The one thing I have heard is Obama stating that he believes that the 2nd Amendment is "an individual right". He also agreed with the supreme courts ruling that said that DC's ban on handguns in homes is unconstitutional. This would seem to contradict at least one of the NRA's main points.
I can appreciate gun-rights advocates calling out the gin-control crowd on their BS, but let’s not pretend the NRA is anywhere close to honest. Wayne LaPierre is been caught in more than one lie on occasion.
their pistol grip tassles stuck to the paint
Don't forget about their "bedazzled" handguards and buttstocks. They kept ripping their cammies on the rinestones.
Obama stating that he believes that the 2nd Amendment is "an individual right". He also agreed with the supreme courts ruling that said that DC's ban on handguns in homes is unconstitutional
So I have nothing left to consider other than NRA leadership race baits.
The one thing I have heard is Obama stating that he believes that the 2nd Amendment is "an individual right". He also agreed with the supreme courts ruling that said that DC's ban on handguns in homes is unconstitutional.
That is enough for me. It isn't as if politicians ever lie or tell half truths to get elected. Do you ever look at a voting record? Does it have any bearing at all? Bush has said on more than one occasion that he supports the Constitution. Do you think his actions have proven that?
While Obama said he agrees with the Heller decision he also said that he supports the DC gun ban and thinks that municipalities should be able to ban guns. I would really like to take Obama at his word, but his voting record and past statements disagree with any second amendment support. His "individual right" also comes with "reasonable restrictions," which is true for any right, but he fails to elaborate on what that means.
Somewhere I have a letter from Carl Levin saying that he "supports the 2nd Amendment," but he has consistently voted for gun control. Would you call him a 2nd amendment advocate?
I have no reason to believe that Obama has some big gun control plan that he wants to push through if he gets into office, but I am not so naive to think that some measures wouldn't get his approval.
Wayne LaPierre is been caught in more than one lie on occasion.
Such as?
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